Episode 11
Welcome to Sensitive With an Edge for highly sensitive people who embrace their intensity,
uniqueness, and value in this world. Join us on the exploration of relationships, complex trauma recovery, non -conventional mindsets, neurodiversity,
and themes that involve healing, growth, and empowerment. Hi, I'm Chris Lyon and welcome to Sensitive with an Edge,
the podcast that helps you regulate your body temperature and tastes great. Seriously, I am thrilled to introduce our special guest, Becky Hellwig. She is a brilliant therapist and she has a practice that is a safe and welcoming place for those seeking healing and support.
She is LGBTQ and kink friendly. She's committed to anti -racism, and she works with survivors of sexual assault and trauma. She is also a licensed master social worker,
a certified advanced alcohol and drug counselor, and she has certifications in rehabilitation counseling and sex therapy. Her practice also has an emphasis on trauma therapy.
She does amazing work. You can find her online at Phoenix Rising Therapy Services, and that's at Phoenix Rising Therapy Services .com,
literally. She's licensed in several states. We are so excited to have her here today. Let's get into it. Okay, Becky, let's start out talking about complex trauma.
How would you explain C -PTSD or complex post -traumatic stress disorder to someone in lay terms. So C -P -T -SD is less commonly known than PTSD.
And when we hear about PTSD, we think of these major events that happen like you're assaulted or you're mugged or something has happened one single isolated incident.
C -PTSD is more of when you are in a situation that you can't escape, and it's traumatic. So when we hear about childhood abuse or neglect,
being in domestic violence relationships, people who are in active combat zones in war, and people who are sex trafficked,
people who are kidnapped, things like that, it's more pervasive trauma where there is no escape from it. Right. And it's continued. Yeah, it is continued.
You can't get away from the traumatic situation. And when that happens, the CPTS develops. So you have a lot of the similar things from PTSD, but there's extra.
There's more with it. Right. Well, like a cluster. So now I know that many people suffer from C PTSD unknowingly. And I'm wondering what have you seen as some of the signs and main issues,
especially with sensitive people or highly sensitive people who have been diagnosed with complex trauma or maybe who not have not been diagnosed yet. Yeah. So people who have CPTSD often feel like the world is not super safe,
can be paper independent and having to do everything for themselves. A lot of that comes from where nobody took care of them if there was neglect or nobody stepped in if there's abuse.
So they do everything themselves. They don't feel super safe. Relationships might be tumultuous or there might be difficulty letting people in. It can feel like you're always on edge and may not really know why,
but you're always just kind of aware. You're super aware of your surrounding. You might know where every person in the room in the restaurant is. And when somebody's walking and where they are and not even really realize that it's impacting you like that because you don't know any different.
Right. Right. This hypervigilance would probably preclude quality sleep, number one. And number two could just be exhausting and overwhelming. It is. your nervous system's in overdrive all the time.
It's always in the spider flight space. So it is exhausting. You're just always preparing for battle or having to run. Right. Now, what are some modalities that you feel are most helpful in CPTSD recovery?
So with CPTSD, I've actually gone through the ISSTD training program. And it's the International Society for the Study of Trauma and Association,
and they have a really intense training program. I've gone through 72 credit hours of C -P -T -SD and D -I -D training, and they teach the three -phase model,
which was first really introduced with Judith Thurman and trauma and recovery in the 90s. Her book Trauma and Recovery is awesome. And it's one of the first that really talked about C -P -T -SD.
So when we do treatment with it. The first thing we do is we try and get people stable. We want to get them sleeping, regulated, get flashbacks under control, get nightmares under control,
feel like you've got some grounding skills, like, we've got some skills under your belt, and you're okay to manage kind of day -to -day things. After that, we will look at trauma processing,
which is where you hear like EMDR, cognitive processing theory, CPT, TFCBT, which is trauma -focused, CBT that's mostly used with kids,
but I know some people use it with adults, prolonged exposure therapy. Those are all the trauma processing things that we do, which helps kind of reprocess it in your brain so that your brain files it away as a memory without it popping up and popping back at you.
Then the third phase is we've gotten you stable and we've done some travel processing. What does life look like now and how do we move forward? Because it's very different now that you don't have all of these triggers and these,
this dysregulation going. Right. So you would say that more at first you want to help them become more resourceful I'm not feeling so much like they're in crisis or just,
you know, trying to survive. Yeah, we want to get out of that survival mode and out of that just, I just have to get from second to second. I can't think about the future. I can't.
I just have to get through this moment. So once you're past that stage or work through it well and they're in a place where they can process, then there's the processing stage where they can do this safely and in a healthy way.
And once they've been doing some of this, it sounds like, okay, moving forward, maybe how can we become familiar with some things that are healthy?
Yeah, and what a healthy relationships look like. How do we function feeling regulated? How do we function in a healthy work environment? Because not all work environments are healthy.
And when we grow up living in chaos and we're in a workplace that's chaotic, it doesn't feel like it's abnormal. And then when you've done all that work, you can look back and realize,
wow, a lot of these things I didn't realize how unhealthy they were. Yeah. Wow. A lot of learning. Yeah, it is. And it's not linear. We go back and forth between things.
Sometimes something will pop up and we'll go back to stabilization, and then we'll keep moving forward. It's very fluid. It's important to remember that it's not linear. That's super helpful. Now, let's talk about things that happen early on.
Of course, most of our audience, they're adults. Let's talk about the ACE study. Can you speak on what that is and what it can tell us? Sure. So the ACE study is a study that was done by the CDC and Kaiser Permanente,
where they looked at the impact of traumatic events on us as children and how it impacts us as adults. It goes through, I think, 10 or 15 questions,
not very extensive. They're major life events. Were you neglected? Were you abused? Was there sexual trauma? Did somebody in your family go to prison? Was there a divorce?
Did people experience domestic violence? Big trauma things. And then you tally it up and get your score. I think it's 10 total because a 10 is the highest a score you could have.
Yes. And then they looked at the correlation with the adults who had experienced those things and what was going on in their life. And if they have experienced substance abuse,
joblessness or difficulty with education, health concerns, early death, even. And when you look at that and you just take your number and you look at the correlation between like having a higher number and having more of those things,
it can be really terrifying when you look at it. Yeah. I had a friend who like was not in mental health And we did a training on ACEs, and she looked at it and went,
well, I guess I'm just totally, like, in trouble because my number's so high, I guess I'm just going to die. Oh, no. And I was like, it doesn't, that's not what it's for and it's not presented well when people look at it that way.
Right. So what should people consider about this? I mean, I know there are some things to look out for. It's like, wow, these are the stats. This is concerning. But it, you don't want to stop there. there. So share some more with us.
So it doesn't look at resilience factors. It doesn't look at genetic history. Like some people are predisposed to having high cholesterol. And no matter what they do or what they eat,
they just genetically have it. But this doesn't account for that. It doesn't account for socioeconomic status either. So when they look at education rates, it doesn't necessarily account for that.
So with this ACE, it's just knowing that you have a higher trauma record and that being aware of it is the first step. Hey, I've got these things.
I need to work on them. I know that I got trauma on my backgrounds, so maybe I need to see a therapist, a coach, both, everybody, and do some work. Is it for motivation?
Yes. And they used the ACE study. What it was intended for is a lot of early childhood intervention and giving us information about why we should intervene in these things for children. Yes.
And they're doing that now. There are also studies on helping with resilience for people who've been traumatized from poverty, racial, and gender discrimination, things like that.
So I'm glad. I mean, it's learning and growing, but resilience is a big thing. We really focus on that in our work. And it's amazing how resilient people can be. And also, I've got to say genetics.
I've seen some people genetically gifted that overcomes some of the stats as well. But there are all kinds of differentials involved in this. They are. Yeah. You can't just look at the ACE number and be like,
oh, this is going to be what happens. It just doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way. And don't do it. Don't do it. It'll scare you to death. That's right. Do not do it. In the high aces,
it's interesting. I believe the high aces starts at four. And I haven't seen much data for what can happen, I guess, as far as physical disease and mental illness for maybe six and up.
A lot of people have higher aces. So it's hard to determine what's going on there. But still, it's, again, it's a heads up. Yeah. It's not a, oh, well, this is going to happen to me,
you know, it's not a, oh, well, I should just, you know, accept it and move on. And we don't want people doing that. Now, let me ask you this. We hear a lot about people being diagnosed with ADHD as well.
And have you heard of, or it's it possible that reaction to trauma can sometimes be seen as or misdiagnosed as symptoms of ADHD? Yeah.
So, especially in women because ADHD looks different in women, C -P -T -SD, ADHD, and poor -to -ine personality disorder and bipolar,
too, all get kind of mixed together in diagnoses and they get misdiagnosed all the time. Oh, yeah. Wow. So what would you say to people about that?
I mean, if they get diagnosed with ADHD. I would say really work with a provider who's knowledgeable about ADHD and trauma if you have trauma.
Right. They can help you tease apart. What is ADHD? What is trauma? And how do we manage both? Because at the end of the day, the whole goal is to be able to have a life that's worth living and feels good.
Exactly. Exactly. I've worked work with clients who said, well, that's just my ADHD. That's it. That's it. There's something I can do about that. And sometimes they can do something about it because I've seen them do it when they've done trauma work.
Do you find that when some people who struggle with addiction, do you find when they make progress with their CPTS recovery, that they also can go into recovery with the addiction?
So The rate of addiction in people who have C .PTSD is very high. It's a very common way of trying to self -medicate and cope with the trauma and the instability.
So as we build those things in, that and we add skills in, we can take away those unskilful behaviors. It doesn't mean you don't have to talk about it with your therapist or work on that,
but it's part of trauma recovery rather than just addiction work. It should just be part of the work together. Right. The addiction definitely goes down.
And once people start to learn how to manage that trauma, they don't need that as much and see where sometimes it's causing a lot of havoc in life. Now,
there is something that you've done a lot of work on. That is very emphasized, I think, in a lot of the people you work with and in life period, it's kind of a dirty word.
And it's something that a lot of people don't realize is running their life. And it can be related to the trauma and addiction. And it's shame. Oh my gosh, yes. Yeah, I did.
I did start. I did. I said it. Shame. The addiction, when they're working on the PTSD and they know why they're feeling this way, why those things happen to them,
they didn't really have control. And they've been carrying this in their nervous system, right? And then they have some, you know, they have to cope, but they have some shame over what happened to them and how they're responding because they don't understand it's C PTSD.
And then they become addicted. And then that gives them a whole new level of shame. Yes. But shame on top of shame, on top of shame. And so you problems. that's a bad person who's hurting me,
it's, I must be bad because they're hurting me. Right. And that message gets so ingrained that that shame is just, gets built in very early on and reinforced so heavily that then they're feeling shameful about themselves and the addiction can come in and then you feel even more shame.
And then it's like this big shame spiral. And Bray Brown does amazing work on shame. I love her. But shame is something we talk about all the time because shame thrives in the dark and secrecy.
So as we talk about it and give it air and give it light, and you learn that people aren't going to reject you for this thing that happened or for who you are, it helps decrease the shame.
So Well, people aren't going to be trying to find out all these bad things about you because they're going to be focusing on themselves. Yeah. And they may give you a chance to really get to know you. And on top of the fact that those things weren't your fault or you're doing,
I think that helps people start to realize, wow, I'm carrying the shame and it's really heavy. I don't think most people realize it.
I don't think many people with see PTSD. I know I didn't have that much shame. I didn't realize it because you have these limiting beliefs of it was my fault. Yes.
You know, this was because of me or I'm, like you said, I'm bad. I'm not good enough. I have a hard time finding anyone who doesn't have a not good enough issue in some way,
shape, or form, right? Yeah. And so that shame, I don't think people understand that they have this really powerful shame that's driving them, I don't think they understand it's how much in control of their lives the shame is.
So I'm glad that you helped to shine a light on that in a number of different ways for people. Super important. That's one of the reasons we're talking is because I just think you're so great at your work and what you do and addressing the shame in such a compassionate understanding way what more of what the world needs it's such a hard dark place to be and for me as a therapist i never want somebody to feel that
alone because i know what that feels like to be in that place alone and it can be really scary and really bad it's lonely and it makes you close and hide things away that you should be going through and processing and letting go of and seem differently differently.
Yeah. Working through. It's the biggest barrier to like healing. Yeah. Okay. So let's just say that. What is the biggest barrier to healing? It's our shame because when we can't even acknowledge it,
we can't talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. It's good work to do to work on that shame and realize why it's there and what's going on with it.
Thank you for listening to this episode of Sensitive with an Edge with our amazing guest therapist, Becky Helwig. Tune in next time in two Fridays to hear more as we continue this eye -opening conversation with Becky.
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We want to keep bringing this out to those of you who are Sensitive with an Edge. Sensitive with an Edge is a podcast created by Chris M. Lyon for highly sensitive people seeking relatable and practical insights.
While the content is designed to be informative and supportive, it is not intended as medical or clinical advice. Listeners are encouraged to determine their own sensitivity level and consult with a health care professional if needed.
Use and opinions expressed in this podcast are based on the knowledge and experience of the host and guests and do not necessarily reflect those of any affiliated organizations or individuals.
